"People cannot make law", says Aruna Roy

CHENNAI: In an apparent criticism of social activist Anna Hazare and his protest for passing Lokpal bill, National Advisory Committee member Aruna Roy on Thursday said "people cannot make a law" and it had to be done by a drafting committee.

"Law has to be looked at it detail. If you change one comma or one fullstop a right becomes no right. People can demand a law, people can say what kind of principle should be in a law... But law cannot be drafted by the people and we can't do the rubber stamp either. We have to set up a drafting committee and it should draft a law," Roy said while delivering a lecture here.

Referring to reported remarks of team Anna member Arvind Kejriwal that "if Anna says it is the right thing, people will rubber stamp it," Roy said, "Our argument is that no one should rubber stamp. "

"We don't mean to say that the three or ten people will be given full authority on what they want in that nor are we saying that people do not have the right to say what they want to say," she said.

Slamming media for making "a black and white debate" reporting on the issue, she questioned "Can we allow the electronic media to take hold the definition of the democracy for us?"

Roy had earlier said Anna Hazare was "ill-adviced" in going on the recent fast at the Ramlila Maidan in Delhi demanding passage of Lokpal Bill.

Meeting Notes: Anna Hazare and Sharmila Irom

It was 1997, the year India was marking her 50th year of Independence. There would have been many celebrations of this momentous occasion but only one unique observation of this historical timeline stays on with me: a NGO based in Mumbai was taking about 250 young people from India and across the world to places of India’s history and future in a train specially reserved for the purpose! The announcement was made on a popular cultural TV program (which we don’t see the likes of now) called Surabhi beamed on Doordarshan and various other newspapers. It was a happy moment when I got confirmation that I was to be one of the said young people on the train that would ultimately travel for 11 days across the country facilitating interactions with people who were inspiring: Mark Tully, Abdul Kalam (then with ISRO and who talked us then of the possibility of an Indian moon mission which did become a reality!), Bunker Roy of Tillonia (married to Aruna Roy and behind hugely successful rural enterprises, water harvesting, adult literacy among others in Tillonia in Rajashthan), Kiran Bedi (much before her controversial stint in Mizoram) and Anna Hazare who was known at that point of time mostly for his pioneering work in Ralegan Siddhi, a village in Ahmednagar district, Maharashtra.



The said rail yatra was mainly organized to instill in young people the essence of leadership, innovation and social development. The routine was that we would be traveling in the train non-stop till we reached the places we were meant to be and then getting back to the train for the night. So, there was an air of curiosity when we were told that we would have an overnight stay at Ralegan Siddhi to meet a Gandhian who had taken up rural conservation and community work. The villagers took us around the place and we were told how small canals had been dug up to generate water flow. But it was two things that impressed me greatly: a school for juvenile children and the practice of Shramdaan or volunteer work as a form of social charity. The school had classrooms but if the children so wanted, classes would be held under the shade of trees in the open. There were yoga classes for “anger management” while most constructions in the village: the small dams, solar panels, wells, places of worship were all built through Shramdaan.

In the evening, we sat in a community hall and then, in walked Anna who spoke of his “second life” (he was the lone survivor during an enemy attack during an India-Pakistan war). We talked then mostly of philosophy and working for social upliftment. Like many of my fellow yatris, we thought nothing much about questioning his rigid stand against alcoholics (they were beaten up, period) and I even piped in my two bit and told him how Nishabandi women in Manipur were also doing the same! It would take me some years to understand the concept of public health and harm reduction and see that the greater crime of punitive measures on substance abusers only marginalizes them and do nothing about addressing the dependency. Anna Hazare’s activism against corruption started later and one cannot say much of what happened in between. But personally, the posturing Anna that one sees on TV (wagging fingers and dictating terms) is a very different person from the Anna I met all those years ago. The Anna then actually asked us young people on what we thought he should incorporate more into his work in his village in terms of forest and water conservation etc. The Anna one gets to see now refuses any kind of disagreement with his thoughts and beliefs.

November 2000 and a young woman called Irom Sharmila decided to fast to protest after 10 civillians were gunned down at Malom. My first reaction then (and I am/ not ashamed to own up to this now) was that it would be some token fast. Some days later, there was the “fast against AFSPA till the act is taken off” context and I thought that hers was an illogical/irrational and totally crazy stand to take. I also shrugged it off as “some group must be behind her” motive. I totally bought the “AFSPA is necessary till there are insurgents” theory for quite a long time till my own readings on militarism and armed conflicts around the world and conflict resolution/reconciliation processes made me sit up and engage in some serious questioning.

The first meeting happened in March 2009 during her customary yearly release. It was total chaos: there was a meeting of over 50 odd woman journalists from all over the country happening in Imphal and they all wanted to meet her. And then, there was the usual local media attention too. The first meeting was more of a brief sighting especially since I did not believe I needed to add my own questions to the many that were being addressed to her.

The second meeting happened in a unique setting: something that I have only shared with a few friends but one that can be let out in the public domain now. January 2010 saw me with very high fever after a trip to Bangkok and my Uncle, a doctor asked me to get a swine flu test done. Since he was with Jawarlal Nehru hospital then, I went there. Those who follow news would be aware that I was tested positive for swine flu but much before that news broke, I was raising hell over the state of the isolation ward at the hospital. What I did not want to call attention to the media then was that while I was standing outside the isolation ward with the face mask on, waiting for hospital staff to find the keys to the room (they took about an hour and a half!) I saw a familiar figure some 10 metres away from me. It was Sharmila Irom! My heart plummeted inside me: here was this one person I wanted to talk with and I was supposedly at risk of an infection that I could pass on to her. I have a small face and the mask covered most of it and I saw Iche Sharmila looking quizzically at me. I rolled my eyes at her and hoped that she would not come near (I did not want to be responsible for her health!). When eventually, my test results came in positive, I wasn’t too worried about my own health (I did not take Tamiflu medication) or my family (they did not have any fever) but I obsessively kept an ear open for any news on Sharmila’s health!

In May 2010, I got third time lucky and I had a long meeting with Iche Sharmila. I was going along as a sort of translator for a journalist and writer. We talked mostly of non-political issues: of her books and poetry we talked at great length. And then she took both my hands and said solemnly, “remember when you were at this hospital with your mask on?” And then she laughed and told me, “you don’t know the amount of activity and consternation that happened here after you left!” There was no air of moral superiority following the status of icon-hood that has settled on her: I was face to face with a unique person yes but also a normal human being, a young woman kept in isolation but very aware of the world around her.

End-point:
Many people have pitched Anna Hazare’s crusade against corruption and Sharmila Irom’s stand against AFSPA. But their stands are different and the battlefield totally apart from each other. My own interaction with both of them happened at different times and stages of their journey. But what stays on following my interactions with Iche Sharmila are the little ways in which she is so much a person than an icon. It is something that one does not get to see in other people who take on the mantle of greatness.

Tewari exits panel, Aruna called for Lok Pal meet

First a streak of stinging criticism, then a note of apology and finally an act of retirement. Congress spokesperson Manish Tewari has withdrawn himself from the Standing Committee on Law and Justice that is looking into the controversial Lok Pal Bill. The recusal comes a little over a fortnight after the Ludhiana MP called Anna Hazare corrupt, and then, midway the Gandhian’s nation-wide anti-graft agitation, openly expressed regret over his allegations.

Tewari’s announcement on Wednesday comes on the last day of the pertinent parliamentary panel that is now set for reconstitution. Political parties name their MPs for membership of the committee that is constituted by the Speaker of the Lok Sabha and the chairperson of the upper house. The members have a one-year term that can be extended if their party renominates them.


The next meeting of the 31-member Committee to discuss Lok Pal is scheduled to take place on September 7, for which Hazare has been called. For now, the 74-year-old social activist has declined the invitation.
Hazare would take part in the process at a later stage, two representatives of Team Anna had told the committee yesterday. RTI activist Arvind Kejriwal and senior lawyer Prashant Bhushan had, during an informal discussion with panel chair Abhishek Manu Singhvi (who has taken over the post from Jayanti Natarajan after her becoming a minister) that Hazare would not be able to attend the September 7 meeting.

Since it’s now clear that Hazare would not attend the meeting, the panel members have asked social activist and NAC member Aruna Roy to virtually substitute him on September 7. Hazare and his team members had attended the panel’s first meeting on August 10, six days before he went on a hunger strike at the Ramlila groud. Hazare had also given copies of the Jan Lok Pal Bill to the 31-member standing committee after a three-hour-long meeting. Hazare’s proposed abstention from the meeting also means virtual detention for the rest of the committee members. “We want to take forward our discussion on Jan Lok Pal Bill,” said a panel member. “Hazare has said that they would meet the standing committee only later.”

The Lok Pal Bill prepared by Aruna Roy and her fellow members demands the creation of a National Anti-corruption Lok Pal for the Prime Minister and his Cabinet, MPs and group A officers. Roy is also demanding that the Central Vigilance Commission must be strengthened and it should act against middle-level bureaucracy.

Similarly, the group is also demanding a Judicial Accountability and Standards Bill, a Lok Pal for Public Grievance and Public Interest Disclosure and a Protection to People Making the Disclosure Bill for protection of whistleblowers.

The opposition BJP, in an apparent move to corner the ruling Congress at the meetings, has replaced two of its standing committee members after their tenure ended on Wednesday. It had held a series of discussions with Bikaner MP Arjun Meghwal and his Darbhanga counterpart Kirti Azad, and nominated them in place of Jyoti Dhurve (Betul) and Devji M Patel (Jalore).

Senior BJP leader S S Ahluwalia said the panel had earlier discussed the Women’s Reservation Bill, and “that is why we had nominated Jyoti Dhurve”. Now that the Lok Pal was being taken up, “we decided to name Meghwal because he has been a former civil servant himself and would be able to add to the discussions. Both Meghwal and Azad were chosen because we wanted people who put across the views of BJP and also those who could devote time for the Lok Pal bill”. Congress’s Singhvi said it was for the political parties and Presiding Officers of both Houses to decide their nominees. “As chairman of the Committee, I have no role in their appointment.”

RJD chief Lalu Prasad, LJP President Ram Vilas Paswan, BJP leaders Bal Apte and Harin Pathak and independent member Amar Singh as also senior advocates Ram Jethmalani of the BJP and Vijay Bahadur Singh of BSP are part of the outgoing committee.

Hazare discharged

Social Activist Anna Hazare was today discharged from a Gurgaon hospital in the evening where he has admitted after he broke his 12-day long hunger-strike in demand for a stronger Lok Pal Bill. Hazare remained in the hospital for four days.

“Yes, he is out,” Dr Yatin Mehta, who was attending to Hazare said. when asked if Hazare was discharged.

Hazare, who left the hospital through the back entrance of the hospital, is expected to leave from the Capital tonight for his village Ralegon Siddhi in Maharashtra.

Didn't say Anna was ill advised: Aruna Roy

New Delhi: Social activist Aruna Roy, a member of the National Action Council (NAC) and the National Campaign for People's Right to Information (NCPRI), on Sunday denied having said that Anna Hazare was being ill advised. She said that a newspaper report had twisted her words.

"I did not say that Anna Hazare was being ill advised. It was what a newspaper reported. Newspapers have said many things, the media twists our words, misrepresents us, calls me an NAC member when I speak as a NCPRI member. You can say what you like but I did not say that," she told CNN-IBN in an exclusive interview.

Roy said that she submitted her version of the Lokpal bill to the Parliament's Standing Committee as a member o f the NCPRI and not as a member of the NAC as the latter is not even associated with the Lokpal Bill.
"The NAC is not connected nor associated with the Lokpal Bill. What I am saying concerns my campaign and my campaign, as a member of the NCPRI, has been drafting legislations for the last many years relating to corruption and accountability structure," Roy said.

She also said that her version was different from the Jan Lokpal Bill, as it suggests five institutions to fight corruption. She added that it was not feasible to have one huge organisation, as suggested by Team Anna.
"What we have proposed is that instead of one institution that the Jan Lokpal has proposed, we have said that there should be 5 institutions because its administratively not feasible to have one huge organisation. Also because there is a problem with accountability structure between various institutions that have been suggested. Both the Jan Lokpal Bill and the presentation of ours, which we call a 'Basket of Anti-Corruption Measures', covers everybody. However unlike the Jan Lokpal Bill, we don't leave out Judiciary, we don't leave out the Prime Minister, no body. Higher and lower bureaucracy is also covered," said Roy.

Roy said that she wrote to the Joint Drafting Committee with formulations and suggestions for the Lokpal. She added that Pranab Mukherjee and Shanti Bhushan had said they would call her for the meetings but never did.

She said that on July 6, she and her team presented their version of the bill in the public domain for discussion and after that they sent it to the Standing Committee.

On being asked if she would accept Arvind Kejriwal's offer to go to Ramlila Maidan and debate on both versions of the bill, she said that it was okay to discuss things in the pre-legislative phase but once a draft goes into Parliament it is better to suggest ideas and formulations to the Standing Committee.
"There is a danger in discussing things out of the parliament, as tomorrow there can be a huge mobilisation of any kind of extremist group, they can demand anything, nothing will take place in parliament and it will all happen outside," she said.

"We can have a discussion, pre-legislative discussions can be held outside, yes I agree with that. But once its goes into Parliament, I think, we must absolutely fight the Parliament. If people start taking fundamental parliamentary rights then I think its a danger not for the government, as the government can go today. But what about us? Every time we have tampered with Constitutional rights, this country has suffered. We only have to think of what happened during Emergency and subsequently," she added.

Roy said that the Right to Information Act was amended 153 times when it was with the Standing Committee as the government draft was very weak. So, instead of discussing things outside, she said it will be better to go to the Standing Committee with suggestions.